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Digital Transformation & AI for Humans
Welcome to 'Digital Transformation & AI for Humans' with Emi.
In this podcast, we delve into how technology intersects with leadership, innovation, and most importantly, the human spirit.
Each episode features visionary leaders from different countries who understand that at the heart of success is the human touch—nurturing a winning mindset, fostering emotional intelligence, soft skills, and building resilient teams.
Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes.
Visit https://digitaltransformation4humans.com/ for more information.
Digital Transformation & AI for Humans
Leadership in the Age of AI - Empowering Leaders and Emphasizing STEM Collaboration
As AI reshapes industries, how can leaders in construction and technology stay ahead? In this episode, we explore the mindset, skills, and interdisciplinary collaboration required to lead in an AI-driven world - through Kane Group’s pioneering efforts, guided by Gary Cowan from Belfast, Northern Ireland, UK - a Multi Award-Winning BIM Leader, Global BIM and Technology Thought Leader, AI Enthusiast, and STEM Ambassador.
Gary leads Digital Construction at Kane Group, a company renowned for its strong heritage in designing, developing, and delivering building-service solutions throughout the UK and Ireland.
Gary takes us behind the scenes of cutting-edge projects like the Claridge’s Hotel Refurbishment. He shares real-world examples of how AI are reshaping workflows, enhancing design validation, improving quality assurance, and delivering measurable results, as well as his insights on AI-powered leadership, STEM integration, and innovation in digital construction.
🔑 Key Discussion Points:
✔ Future-Ready Leadership & Mindset – The essential skills leaders need to navigate AI disruption
✔ Interdisciplinary STEM Collaboration – How cross-functional teams drive digital transformation
✔ Essential Attributes of Future Leaders – Agility, ethical AI decision-making, and strategic thinking
✔ Industry–Education Partnerships – The role of hands-on AI learning in shaping tomorrow’s workforce
✔ Practical Applications in Digital Construction – Digital twins, predictive maintenance, and augmented reality
✔ Ethical Considerations of AI in Construction – Addressing AI bias, transparency, and responsible implementation
✔ Cultivating a Culture of AI-Driven Innovation – Encouraging adaptability, experimentation, and continuous learning
✔ Actionable Advice for Leaders – How to successfully integrate AI for long-term business growth
This episode is packed with visionary perspectives.
🎧 Tune in to gain insights on the future of AI-driven leadership!
🔗 Connect with Gary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garycowan83/
🔗 Learn more about Kane Group
🔗 BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m001gqnm/the-mayfair-hotel-megabuild
About the host, Emi Olausson Fourounjieva
With over 20 years in IT, digital transformation, business growth & leadership, Emi specializes in turning challenges into opportunities for business expansion and personal well-being.
Her contributions have shaped success stories across the corporations and individuals, from driving digital growth, managing resources and leading teams in big companies to empowering leaders to unlock their inner power and succeed in this era of transformation.
📚 Get your AI Leadership Compass: Unlocking Business Growth & Innovation 🧭 The Definitive Guide for Leaders & Business Owners to Adapt & Thrive in the Age of AI & Digital Transformation: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DNBJ92RP
📆 Book a free Strategy Call with Emi
🔗 Connect with Emi Olausson Fourounjieva on LinkedIn
🌏 Learn more: https://digitaltransformation4humans.com/
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🔔 Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes
Hello and welcome to Digital Transformation and AI for Humans with your host, amy. In this podcast, we delve into how technology intersects with leadership, innovation and, most importantly, the human spirit. Each episode features visionary leaders who understand that at the heart of success is the human touch nurturing a winning mindset, fostering emotional intelligence and building resilient teams. I'm honored to welcome my fantastic guest, gary Cowan, from Belfast, northern Ireland, the United Kingdom. Gary is head in digital construction at Kean Group. He's a multi-award winning BIM leader, global BIM and technology thought leader, ai enthusiast and STEM ambassador. Technology thought leader, ai enthusiast and STEM ambassador. Cain Group has a strong heritage in designing, developing and delivering building service solutions throughout the UK and Ireland. Welcome, gary, it's amazing to have you here.
Speaker 2:Hi, amelie, thanks so much for having me back.
Speaker 1:Let's start the conversation and transform not just our technologies but our ways of thinking and leading. Interested in connecting or collaborating? You can find more information in the description. Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes. Gary, to start with, I'm so happy to have you here and to have this conversation around the leadership topic, and I would love to hear a little bit more about your experience, about your journey, about everything you'd like to share with us around what you've been through and how you came to the point of being who you are today. Very long story now.
Speaker 2:I mean when I, when I think about how how Very long story now. I mean when I think about how long I've been here. I mean I'm 41 now. I've been in the construction industry probably almost 20 years now, started life as a young boy loving technology. I'm a real technology geek. I love everything about technology, not just in construction, but just technology as a whole.
Speaker 2:As a child growing up, I was always very curious about how things worked rather than just what they did. I was very concerned with the internal workings of things and that has kind of stayed with me all through my career a natural inquisitiveness as to the inner workings of everything that I touch. I'm never satisfied just to accept a system or a piece of equipment. You know I kind of always have to know how does it work, how does it function, how can I make it better? And that has stayed with me throughout my whole life, drilled into me from a young age by my parents and my older brothers. I always had a real good working attitude of work hard and play hard. You know, in that order that's what I tell my own children. You know you have to work hard and play hard. Life's not all just about working. It's about enjoyment as well, and I try and bring those two together as much as I can, and it's through the enjoyment of construction that I think that I've done so well as well.
Speaker 2:People say that you should do a job that you love, and I actually really do love digital construction. I live in Rebate and I do a lot of work outside of work research and development and I think that really that mindset is important for anyone who wants to succeed. You know, it's not about being the smartest guy in the room. I certainly am. I'm not the smartest guy in the room. I certainly I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but I'm probably the hardest working guy in the room. I'm not afraid of acknowledging and sacrificing my time. I would probably say that my wife and my children probably wouldn't feel that way, because there's a lot of times where I'm maybe distracted or I'm doing something else. But you know, I have dreams of success and dreams of the future. So I kind of am sacrificing a wee bit of time now for the benefit of everyone in the future.
Speaker 2:But sort of growing up through my career, I sort of climbed the ladder from the very bottom, started in construction as a CAD technician, basically, from graduating from Queen's University in Belfast, I kind of had to climb the ladder from the very bottom rung and having to do it with humility and learning. You know, coming out of university like a lot of the kids nowadays with an entitlement, thinking that because I had a degree, that I knew everything certainly didn't. I had my eyes opened very early in my career. That, you know, being all theory and no practicalities, not good. So I kind of stepped away from the design role at the start and and spent five or six years actually working on sites and trying to learn my knowledge of built-in services systems, with a view that if I was ever going to be a top design guy, I would need to understand inherently how these things go together and how they work.
Speaker 2:So over 12 years, um, sort of spent a lot of time learning and and learning the trade, learning the ropes, uh, getting my hands dirty on sites, and then migrated back to design then, um, where I sort of joined cane group in 2012 and then over the last 12 years, I really have spearheaded the charge of digital construction within canes and, to my delight and to everyone's delight, you know, we've actually risen up to be one of the.
Speaker 2:I really have spearheaded the charge of digital construction within Keynes. To my delight and to everyone's delight, we've actually risen up to be one of the leading MEP design and build contractors here in the UK, which I'm immensely proud of. I work with a fantastic group of people and they're all fantastic. They're all very highly skilled, highly motivated individuals and they push me as much as I push them. You know it's just a mutual relationship with everyone. I just feel very blessed at this point in my career to to be where I am and and to have the knowledge that I know and and all of the contacts that I've made worldwide. It's, it's phenomenal for a boy from east belfast, you know, it blows my mind at times thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It it's so inspiring and we definitely share the concept around work hard, play hard, and it is important to love what you're doing, because then you add all your passion, all your energy, all your creativity into it and it becomes a completely different game. So I really appreciate how you are navigating your space and that's why we're having this conversation today, because I would like our listeners and viewers to hear your stories, your examples, your insights and learn from you as well, so that they can succeed in their career, in their life. Gary, you're a global beam and technology thought leader. What are the skills and mindset required for effective leadership with the rise of artificial intelligence, especially in the construction and technology sectors?
Speaker 2:Leaders have to sort of lead by example. A lot of people preach from a high position without actually doing the work. You know what I mean. For me it's always been very important to lead by example, lead by you know just to. You can talk the talk, but you have to be able to walk the walk as well.
Speaker 2:And another key skill is to be able to focus. You know I have a real skill for focusing on things, which is kind of counterintuitive. There's times where I can be in a thousand places at once and there's some days where I really don't know what I'm doing and I'm spinning in circles. But when I put my mind to something and I have a clear task and a clear route to a solution, you know I have laser focus on that. And in today's construction industry there's so many softwares, there's so many vendors. You know you have to have the skill of understanding what suits your particular workflow and company the best. You know what tools that would perhaps work for us might not work for someone else in a different discipline. So it's the ability to sort the wheat from the chaff, as they say. You know to understand what it is exactly is required and what is the optimal workflow. So laser focus and an ability to figure out exactly what's required is needed.
Speaker 2:And courage is another skill or attribute that is needed. You know you have to have the courage to take chances and take risks. I don't like to take risks like gambling. You know I'm not. I don't like gambling at all. I don't believe in fortune and luck. I believe that. You know things come to those who wait. So I think you just have to really know, be able to take calculated risks. That's what I was trying to say there. Yeah, calculated risks, understanding that there are risks involved in these things, but understanding the benefits on the other side as well, kind of not blindly following the pack. That's another thing.
Speaker 2:Just because someone has had a success in an endeavor or a software system doesn't necessarily mean that that is the the best or more optimal way. You know, I've never been a follower in my whole life. My whole life I've always been a leader, and I'm sure my mom and dad would have told you as a child that was hard growing up because I'd never listened to anyone. I always knew what was right and I wasn't always right. You know, as a child I thought I was always right. So it took a lot of humbling and a lot of um sort of self-reflection to get to a point where your confidence doesn't turn into arrogance, if you know what I mean. You know you have to be quietly confident and and I'll always remember that there's always someone better than you. You know there's always someone to learn from and I'm always keen to try and meet other leaders now worldwide and try and learn from their example.
Speaker 1:That's really why I believe a good leader leads by example amazing I totally agree and it is so great that, despite the level you've reached in life, you still are so humble. You are so eager to share everything you have with others, support them and lead by example. It is something we need more of in the present and in the future. I am a little bit curious about your decision-making process. How do you put logics versus intuition? Do you use both, or are you mostly relying on your logical approach?
Speaker 2:You are correct, it is a bit of both. For example, if I'm looking at several different software packages or solutions, I tend to actually physically try them all. I give them all equal weight and equal consideration, and I'll spend the time. You know, I will arrange demonstrations from each vendor or software provider and I will road test it, you know, and and see what the options are. A lot of companies will come in and sort of try and sell you the world and and they give you a lot of examples that aren't relevant.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's what I always say to anyone that comes to me with a solution or a problem solved. You know, I say to them well, you can show me your software working on a different building or a different processor for a different uh customer, but that doesn't mean anything to me. I need to see it in the context of kane's work. I need to see how it would work with our workflows and I need our people to see it as well. So when I'm considering these systems, I don't do it on my own, you know. I I include all of the people that are going to be uh involved with the systems or using the systems and I, you know I value their feedback more than my own. Really, you know, I understand that a lot of the times it won't be myself that's this using the software or the hardware, it's someone else. So their opinion and their views are the most important thing. So I challenge everyone who brings me a product you know, don't try and sell me it on a team's call or a phone call let's go to site, let's meet on the ground, let's get the people involved in, show them how it works, and then I let the people decide.
Speaker 2:As such. You know, I say to them, right when we, when they did the point cloud scanning technology, for example, a few years ago, we looked at all the major suppliers, um, we looked at trimble, we looked at leica, we looked at faro, we looked at all of them and we, we scanned the same building with each piece of equipment. Um, we looked at all the outputs and asked the, the guys on the ground, you know which hardware was the best of use, easier to use, portability. You know all considerations and then the decision was made as a group, collective, rather than just me preaching from on top. You know what I mean. So inclusion for me is probably the biggest thing making sure that the right stakeholders are involved and it naturally works itself out. You know what I mean. It works really really well, for me anyway.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. It makes me feel that your approach is so right and it is so inclusive. In a good way, it is the essence of success, because without letting them try, letting them choose, you can't force them using it for your success, for your collective success later on. So it is a very wise approach. In what ways is interdisciplinary STEM collaboration essential for driving innovation in digital construction?
Speaker 2:Interdisciplinary collaboration is essential for modern day construction. It really is. You know there are so many different talented people involved. When you're building a building, you know there's architects, there's structural engineers, there's civil engineers, there's electrical engineers, there's mechanical engineers, there's fire engineers. There's so many people that are involved who bring their own unique knowledge and skill sets to the table. So collaboration is absolutely key to the whole thing, and the STEM part of it the science, technology, engineering and mathematics for the schools is vitally important in my opinion.
Speaker 2:What we're seeing in the industry at the moment is that quite a lot of the youth that are coming through aren't coming into the industry with the specific skill sets that we require, specific skill sets that we acquire, and the only way that that is ever going to be fixed is by the industry circling back and completing the circle almost to provide the education people with the technical knowledge that they're lacking. Really, you know, the professors and the lecturers in universities are theoretical engineers and architects. A lot of them have went the education from the industry, but maybe five, ten years ago, and the landscape changes so quickly at the moment. Certainly, I've been here 20 years and for the first 10, 15 years really there wasn't. You know it was a very slow start. It was a very slow uplift, but in the last six or seven years the technology and the workflows have exploded and the curve has become exponential. You know, the rise is getting faster and faster every day. So every year that passes, the universities are almost slipping three years behind industry at the moment. So I think it's essential for all of the the world's technology leaders, like myself, to make sure that they're also speaking to the schools, universities and I've went as far as going to my children's primary school to talk to the primary school children, boys and the girls in particular, to try and encourage them to look at digital construction.
Speaker 2:And what I'm finding when I go into the schools is most most of the children don't even know. I would ask them who can tell me what construction is, and everyone puts their hand up and says yes, it's building buildings. And then I say, well, what's digital construction? And it's silence in the room. They're all sort of looking at each other. They don't really understand it. So I think that's the key point that should be introduced very, very early. Children think that if you work in construction, you you're going to be standing in a wet field up to your knees in mud. They don't understand that there's a digital side to it where you can be working in an office environment and still be involved in the construction of buildings, and it's really exciting to go on the site. I came from the sites and now I sit in an office every day, so I do quite enjoy getting over to the sites to see them. So I think the education of the children coming through is very important and that's why I became a STEM ambassador about five years ago.
Speaker 1:This is so good and everything I hear from you it feels really so heartwarming and inspiring because your engagement, your activities, they are laser focused on what really matters and, as it's going to be in three to five years, but also it is a longer game and you are engaging and investing your time, knowledge, wisdom and efforts today for the greater good of the society and business environment in a longer term perspective, which is really beautiful yeah, I mean, I haven't had anyone to follow as such.
Speaker 2:You know, I've kind of carved my own path, carved my own lane, and it's been difficult, I won't lie to you. You know, a lot of self-doubt and a lot of sort of very, very hard work and research and development, um, and it would have been great for me to have a mentor or someone to follow and make life easier for me. But I'm not afraid to be the first man in line, I'm not afraid to be the icebreaker and to carve that path, and I think I'm almost duty-bound to pass my knowledge back along the line. Uh, to all the people coming behind me, including my own children, who I would hope that would maybe someday follow me and do my footsteps, perhaps.
Speaker 1:Hopefully. No matter what they do, you know you are raising them by example of being a brilliant leader. So, no matter what they're going to work with, I'm sure they're going to succeed and be trailblazers, as you are as well, because it is about the mindset, it is about the ability to navigate and operate in a different way, and they see this example so close to them 24-7 that it becomes a part of their DNA. Truly amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Gary, what specific attributes do you think future leaders will need to navigate the complexities of AI-driven business? Because you already mentioned that everything is developing exponentially. Everything is changing so fast. That everything is developing exponentially, everything is changing so fast and the leaders need to level up and match this game as well. So what are those specific attributes?
Speaker 2:I think you have to go back to the sort of having knowledge of what AI can bring to the table and knowing its strengths and its weaknesses and also knowing how it's best applied with the people involved, if you know what I mean. Uh, I would hate to think that any leader would automatically assume that they could buy a five thousand pound piece of software to get rid of a twenty five thousand pound person. You know that would be the worst thing for me really. I think the leaders have to understand ai as a tool and it's not a a replacement for people. I think it's very, very important for leaders to understand that this ai can be abused.
Speaker 2:I've seen people already using ai to sort of bluff their way. I recently interviewed a guy and it was over teams. I actually don't like to interview people across online or teams because I can never tell if they're reading from a script or they're getting chat GPT to formulate the answers to me. So I actually did have that very recently with a guy who it was quite clear he was reading from a script. He must have had the computer listening to me and answering the questions and it was very disappointing. So it's to understand who is able to use AI in an ethical way, as such, in a proper way, or the people who are wholly dependent on this AI and who are literally bluffing. I think that will become an issue in the future coming and I think leaders need to really take apart AI and understand it. And understand it can be used for the pros and the cons for AI. I think is the biggest thing for all future leaders going forward.
Speaker 1:I agree it is a huge concern and that's why I highlight the ethical aspects of AI development so often, because we have to talk about it, we have to address this huge elephant in the room as early as possible and we also have to think collectively about how to preserve our human connection and our human ability to continue living our life with these new technologies, without overriding each other through technology, without bluffing, without using that technology to create a future which we probably wouldn't like to be a part of.
Speaker 2:No, not enough.
Speaker 1:And thinking about that brighter future we would like to be a part of In this conversation. You already mentioned that it is nice to have some kind of practical experience incorporated into the theoretical part on the educational level. So do you think companies and educational institutions should work together to provide hands-on STEM learning opportunities that incorporate artificial intelligence and other emerging technologies?
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely. You know, apprenticeships are definitely a thing and they should be promoted much, much more. I think for a long time there, all of the education system was really focused on pushing children and young people into the universities. Um, but that's not always the best route for everyone. Not everyone can be a doctor or an engineer. We still need people on the ground. We still need talented people who can work with their hands. You know it's not all about. You know everyone can't sit in the office and and draw the models. We still need really good people on the ground physically building the building.
Speaker 2:So I think it's incumbent upon all of the education systems and the industry to meet in the middle and offer as much apprenticeships and on-site hands-on learning. And AI is going to come in and disrupt everything, and I think that the best place to learn about AI is going to be at the co-face, you know, in the institutions and in the businesses that are actually using AI for real world problems and real world workflows, rather than studying it in a textbook or an online course where it's all theory and no substance. I'm sort of very critical about all theory and no substance. I think the university should be seeking to take as many children on to built-in sites and show them. I know that here at Keynes we have more than once sort of welcomed a group of schoolchildrens onto one of our built-in sites. Now don't get me wrong. It can be quite disruptive for the companies. It can be quite disruptive for the site because once you bring the likes of a class of schoolchildren onto a built-in site, for example, all work has to stop for that day. There can be no work happening on the site while there's so many vulnerable people on the site. So there are pros and cons to both sides of it.
Speaker 2:I think companies have to try and make that allowance at times as well. It would be lovely if it was kind of built into contracts, you know from the tier ones or the clients themselves saying, look, we will cover a day of the construction to allow a college class in or university class, and it doesn't happen. I have seen it happen over the last 15 years but it's not as nowhere near as much as I would like to see it. I think nothing beats getting the sight and taste and feel of a built-in site. It can go either way. The children might go on and hate it and say nope, that's not for me and someone will be like me and they'll absolutely love it, but that's fine. You know, everyone is their own person and everyone has their own wants and needs in life. So I think STEM is really important over the next couple of years to try and bring that massive gap between education and industry a lot closer aligned.
Speaker 1:I agree it makes so much sense. Can you share some practical examples of how the best practices are being applied in digital construction, such as in predictive maintenance, digital twins or augmented reality? Maybe you can think about something else as well. It would be so nice to share some practical application with our listeners and viewers practical application with our listeners and viewers.
Speaker 2:Well, digital construction really has completely revolutionized how we build buildings. When I started my career 20 years ago, it was still the very old way of building buildings. As I said to you in our previous episodes, it was very much an argument and a fight on sites. And what digital construction has done is it allowed all of that to be taken offline and everyone can now fight in the digital model and it just streamlines everything. You know today's modern construction site has to be very quick and fast and snappy and there's no time really for people standing on site scratching their heads wondering what they're doing. The idea now is that it's a very streamlined, sequenced workflow and it's all sort of carefully considered.
Speaker 2:I know that when we did the clarity's hotel project, it could I don't actually think it could have been done in the traditional sense. It was so dense, it was so compact and the logistics around the whole project wouldn't have allowed for huge storage on site and people grinding and welding on site and making mistakes. Everything had to come in pre-manufactured, ready to go, bolt into place, click it together and on to the next one. So that would be a typical example of how the digital tools have affected workflows, whether a precision set night system where we use the icon, the Leica icon system, to sort of almost like a colorized dot-to-dot system that we put on the underside of slabs. We can now go into a building and digitally set out all of our services and fully install all of the first fix without any kind of internal walls going up, and that is completely turning the sequence of works on our sites on its head from the traditional sense. So the old way was that all the walls went up and then the MEP guys come in and started putting all their stuff in and the walls made it like a rat maze. You know you were lifting two boxes from room to room. It slowed the progress of work down considerably and then a lot of the times the walls had been put in wrong ever so slightly off. So if we're measuring off the wall, that's out, then we're out.
Speaker 2:So with my new set night system that we pioneered, once the props come down and we've got an empty floor plate, we can install probably six, seven, eight times faster. We can do a residential floor plate in a week where it would have took us two months before, with the absolute certainty that everything is in to the millimeter accuracy, with no deviations, nothing missed, because it's all kind of automated. Now we used Dynamo to generate all the points automatically and enter all of the metadata. So I've been seeking to sort of reduce human error or remove human error from the equation and reduce the need for constant human checking, just to try and make it much more streamlined and faster and more economic. And the augmented reality, for example, is another technology that we're in the process of implementing at the moment and it'll revolutionize the quality auditing and checking of our jobs.
Speaker 2:Whereas our qa engineers would have had to walk around with, you know, all of the drawings, all of the technical stuff, they now have the bim model in their hand on a device that they can look at it in comparison and see very, very quickly if stuff is installed differently.
Speaker 2:Stuff is maybe different and in the same app you can photograph it, document it and upload it to the cloud, which comes straight back into the revit sessions of the people.
Speaker 2:So, whereas before it would have took maybe a couple of days for an issue to be raised, because the people would have had to go and look at it, figure out what the difference was, take photographs of it, go back to the office, upload the photos from their camera to their laptop, put it into an email and then it's.
Speaker 2:It's going to defy different systems. So did you send me that on teams? Did you send me it on outlook? You know it creates a confusion and multiple legs of a spider going in every direction, so I try and bring that all back into one system now, where it's all standardized in one system and everyone can see everyone's comments and it's just all about streamlining. So digital construction has really revolutionized efficiency on building sites and it's allowing us to attack really aggressive programs now, and the scale of work that we're able to do now is so much more than we were able to even five years ago when you're telling about all that, I'm thinking how much communication and collaboration is needed behind the scenes when you are implementing all those fantastic solutions and we're living in incredible times.
Speaker 1:Truly, all those innovations, all those new opportunities and mind-blowing technology. It is it's I.
Speaker 2:I always use the analogy of it's it's like. It's like being a conductor of an orchestra. I have a sea of people who have their own unique talents and needs and I have to get them to all play together in unison to make the sound. So I'm almost like the conductor. Or for the younger generation, I say I'm like a DJ. You know, I'm a DJ at the nightclub. I make everybody dance. Do you know what I mean? And that's kind of how I see it.
Speaker 1:I love this comparison and you know it made me think about one presentation made in the field of analytics by a leader working with the Heathrow Airport project. I've been to the conference a number of years ago and I remember exactly this comparison when he said you know, we are like DJs and we make people dance and feel good and want to enjoy it and be a part of it. And that's exactly what you mentioned. So I think it is exactly the truth behind what we are doing and that's also a way to describe the leadership when you are leading by example. So you are just leveling up everybody and help them feeling as a part of something bigger and want to participate and enjoy and share their talents, their energy and everything they have to offer talents, their energy and everything they have to offer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I take great pleasure from seeing people learning from me and watching people grow. You know I've had so many different uh guys and girls coming through the ranks and working for me and I train people like I'm training a friend. You know what I mean I have. I really want these people to do well. I really want them to succeed and I take great, great pleasure from seeing them succeed and seeing them almost develop the same passion and joy that I have. You know what I mean? It's infectious. I think it is anyway, and that's why I try and carry myself that way.
Speaker 2:Now don't get me wrong. There's days where I'm fed up and there's days where I'm cross. It's not's days where I'm cross. It's not always sunshine and rainbows, but I think it's important to try and keep that attitude and that energy. When you are a leader, it's very easy to slip. You're always under immense pressure and sometimes the mask can slip a wee bit. But I think that's also important for everyone to see that you're human, like everyone else.
Speaker 2:I have my bad days, I make mistakes, and I think that gives a bit more legitimacy as well and that I'm not afraid. I wear my heart and sleeve. I call a spade a spade. You know, I'll tell people on linkedin that they're doing great work, but in an equal measure I'll criticize people who are presenting mediocre work in a in a encouraging way to say look, you know, that could be a lot better. You, you're on here looking praise for something that I would regard as very mediocre, and sometimes it can be harsh, don't get me wrong. I think maybe sometimes it can be a bit harsh on people. It comes so naturally to me at times that I kind of forget where I was 20 years ago. So sometimes I have to almost check myself and say, guy, you know, talk to 20-year-old guy and remember how 20 year old guy felt in the start of his career. So I'm not perfect. I don't pretend to be perfect, but you know.
Speaker 1:I always try and keep a positive energy going nobody's perfect, but you are doing such a great job and your results are speaking for themselves, thank you. How can leaders create a collaborative work culture that values continuous learning, adaptability and the integration of AI and STEM insights?
Speaker 2:I try and obviously bringing any new technology or workflow into an organization can be daunting for a lot of people, especially people that are maybe older, in their 50s, heading towards retirement, who grew up in the in the old ways. You know it can be very daunting. Don't get me wrong. I've been a manager and a leader from what was in my early 20s, so I've been very used to dealing with the older generation. Obviously now I'm I'm becoming the older generation, but for me it's always been about excitement and positivity. You know I don't go in and criticize these things and say, oh, you know you should be, you're doing it wrong. I go in and say here's a different way. What do you think? Do you think this would be better? Do you think it would be faster? How would you think?
Speaker 2:And inclusion is the biggest thing. You know, as I said before, I don't come into a site and say I'm the head of digital construction and this is how I want it done. I come in with the right guys, come on in and see what I've got today. You know it's almost like what's he bringing? You know the attitude is oh, here he is again. What's he got for us today? You know they're excited to see me on sites. They're excited to see the new toys and and things that I'm using, so it's inclusion. For me, the biggest thing is just make everyone feel as equally important in the process, because we are, you know, everyone is is important in this process, doesn't matter what your rank and title is in a company. I I don't worry too much about that at all. You know my passion speaks for itself. I have the same driving passion from always the lowest BIM technician to the head of digital construction. It doesn't change.
Speaker 1:I absolutely love it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one right now feeling that passion, that energy around you. The way you are sharing it, the light you're spreading. It is really contagious and it is amazing. Thank you so much. I would like to take us a little bit further and think about all those ethical considerations, because when we are working with those powerful technologies you already mentioned that there are things we should think twice before implementing. Even if it's relatively easy to implement something, we should still ask ourselves is it exactly what we want to do? Is it beneficial for the future development, for the future development? So what do you see as the primary ethical considerations leaders should address when implementing AI within their organizations?
Speaker 2:I think the most important thing for me is that AI should never replace anyone. I would hate to get to a stage where entire jobs are eradicated because it's now cheaper and faster to get an AI to do it to me. That is so anti-human and so unethical for me that it wouldn't sit well with me. Now I understand that business is business and we're here to make money, so I think that's business owners and business operators really need to understand themselves. What is it that they're wanting from from this? You know, is there a core value money or is there a core value community? Do you know what I mean? I know. If I was to start a business, I would be very concerned about the people working for me, not just the money that's coming into the bank current. I would want to make sure that everyone that worked for me was happy and settled in their job, and I would want to augment them with AI. I wouldn't be saying if you don't do it 10 times faster, I'm replacing you with an AI. Who would want to work for anyone that has that attitude, and I don't believe. I think that that attitude would leach into the industry and a company would maybe not be as successful as they would be if they were known as a cutthroat business that didn't look after their staff. You know, keynes are fantastic for their, their health and well-being of their staff. They very much operate with a, a family. First, it's a family-owned company, so we are a family. We're one big family. There's 250 of us and we all get on really, really well and and I don't ever see ai particularly in pains becoming a person replacer, um, but we're very eager and keen to implement it as a tool to help our people get better and faster and learn more.
Speaker 2:The other ethics around it is, you know, we've always seen ai can tell lies at the moment, which bothers me quite a bit. Ai can be manipulated into giving out false information. So I think that's another ethical thing that we'll have to look at these. Ai should be coded in a way that it should always tell the truth, no matter what the outcome is. You know, we live in a politically correct world today where it's not always a good thing to tell the truth, and I don't agree with that at all. You know, the truth is truth and it's vitally important to society that we recognize truth and we call a spade a spade. Maybe it's an Irish thing, I don't know. I know I've had that comment many times that us Irish are very brash and we just say it how it is. But I think that that would solve so many problems in the world today if we just called the spade a spade and said how it is. You know facts, don't care about feelings and business. That's important.
Speaker 2:I think I would hate to have a point where you have to actually second guess an AI To that point it becomes irrelevant. You know, if I have to actually second guess an ai that is actually giving me correct information, then it's useless for me anyway. Um, I would hate to get to a point where there is the singularity that you said, where there is like a skynet that's watching us all and we're seeing all these things happening. Now. There's facial tracking. You know technology is starting to. Technology has been amazing up to a point, but I think in this last two years it's now starting to overstrap the marketplaces. It's starting to come into personal privacy and things. Our data is being leaked. Ai is being trained on all of our social media accounts.
Speaker 2:There is a line in the sand where I think it has to be drawn that there cannot be overreach. I would hate to get to a point where we'll have the Chinese system of the credit scores and the social scores. I mean that, for me, would be completely unacceptable in a Western democracy. We really should not allow anything like that happen, and the same with the digital currency, things like that, the CDBCs that we're talking about. We've all seen what happened in Canada there recently, when people protested, which is their right to protest. Mr Trudeau decided to turn all their bank accounts off when people went hungry with children. So there is a technology should interweave with people for their benefit. It should not be a stick to beat people with, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:What you just described is so important to understand and to see that broader picture of how those technologies can be super beneficial and, at the same time, how they might impact us as human beings and impact our reality in a completely different way.
Speaker 1:And I think the problem with those technologies. At the same time, it's a beauty of it and that's why I admire it that much, because actually it takes any human problem and makes it so much bigger when it hits it with its power, with its impact. As you mentioned the definition of truth. As humans we have so different definitions of what truth is and all those facts and our beliefs and everything. They're very personal. Actually, we are all living in a different reality, even if it seems like if the sources of information are the same, but our perception is very human and very different from what you can expect actually logically and our way of making decisions based on emotions and feelings. So there are mechanisms involved which are actually just reflected through AI and it creates probably another wonderful reminder to who we are and what problems we are facing on different levels in different dimensions. And it would be also a great opportunity to start addressing those problems by using those technologies, among other things, by understanding better who we are as humans.
Speaker 2:At the same time, I have to let humans deal with humans. I've seen a recent example there where there was an owner of a company and he was trying to hire a particular person and his HR department were rejecting probably 80% of the CVs that were coming in. Using an AI system and to test, he actually applied for the position himself with his own CV and his own CV was rejected. So he then went down and sacked all of his HR staff because he realised that they were bluffing. They weren't taking the time to read people's CVs, to look at the human being behind the document. You know you can't gauge a person from two A4 pages of experience. You have to meet the people. You have to understand who they are, what they stand for, you know what experiences they've had in life.
Speaker 2:Some people might not be book smart, but they might be very, very street smart and might be the most intelligent person in the room, but have no qualifications because of their circumstances and because of their upbringing or where they came from and what background or nationality, or where they came from and on what background or nationality or or where they came from. You know, my fear is that that becomes a thing. You know, I would hate the point where you're having to fight through a computer to get speaking to a person. We've all sat through telephone calls where you're talking to a robot trying. You just give me a human, please. You know that that has to stop for me. You know we have to.
Speaker 1:It could become a runaway train very, very quickly for me, and I think that instead of waiting for the train to run away, we should literally be looking out right now as we're developing it I agree, and just a few weeks ago, speaking about hr and the processes of reviewing CVs, it was such a shocker for me when I discovered that sometimes those CVs are just rejected because of the wrong format. The system can't read certain formats and then the CVs are rejected, and then it's not about the person or not about what was in that CV, because that CV was never reviewed just because of their own format. So, yes, those technologies are creating a completely different level of definitions and questions around what we are, who we are and how we are going to navigate this new highly technological environment, which is super exciting. But at the same time, everything is so fast paced that we have to start applying our critical thinking and moving faster ourselves as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, going back to one of your previous questions about what leaders need to focus on with AI, I think it's important to understand where AI is going to be useful as a tool and detrimental as a human blocker. There's perfect examples where AI will be the best solution for something because it has no impact on the humans in that environment, but once it starts to impact the people in a negative light, I think that's when leaders need to understand and recognize that and resist the temptation to go with it. Do you know what I mean? And again, there's so many things, there's so many facets to that problem. It's hard to understand, but I think the human should be the central focus, rather than the mummy or the technology or the workflow.
Speaker 1:I agree and I really appreciate that you mentioned it. So I so appreciate our today's discussion and this depth of how we are approaching all those questions, how you are sharing your experiences and your vision. It is important. It is such a great reminder for everybody that it's not black or white. We just have to be mindful. We have to be conscious around what we're doing, how we're doing it and, most importantly, what is our why behind it as well. Now, just to wrap up this beautiful conversation, what is one piece of advice you would like to give to today's leaders to succeed with artificial intelligence in the area of digital construction tomorrow, after tomorrow and years ahead?
Speaker 2:I've had so many snippets in different podcasts I've done over the years, so I will try and give you a different one that I haven't done before. I think the one I want to say is to be fearless. Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to take risks, don't be afraid to leave the pack, don't be afraid to carve your own path. You will fail. There's no doubt you will fail along the way. You will trip, you will stumble, but's no doubt you will fail along the way. You will trip, you will stumble, but keep faith in yourself. Don't be put off by any failures. Use it as an example, use it as a teaching method, use it as a lesson learned and constantly evolve. I won't ever sit on my laurels. I am always wanting to learn. I'm 20 years in and I still have the same passion and energy for learning as I ever did. You know, I always seek someone else to learn from. So don't be scared to take chances, don't be scared to trip up and always look for the smarter, grander.
Speaker 1:I love this. Thank you so much. It's so inspiring and so meaningful. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, your experience and for being here with us today. I appreciate you, gary. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us on Digital Transformation and AI for Humans. I'm Amy and it was enriching to share this time with you. Remember, the core of any transformation lies in our human nature how we think, feel and connect with others. It is about enhancing our emotional intelligence, embracing a winning mindset and leading with empathy and insight. Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes where we uncover the latest trends in digital business and explore technology and leadership. Until next time, keep nurturing your mind, fostering your connections and leading with heart.
