S1|Ep63 Human Autonomy & AI: Designing a Future where Tech empowers Individuals

In this episode of Digital Transformation and AI for Humans, I invite you to explore Human Autonomy & AI: Designing a Future where Tech empowers Individuals, together with my fantastic guest from Stockholm, Sweden - Ingo Paas.

Ingo is CIO & CDO at Green Cargo I Global, EMEA & National CIO and Technology Award Winner I a Visionary and Book Author.

With Green Cargo being Sweden’s most experienced rail logistics provider, handling 20 million tons of goods annually with 98% electric train operations, ensuring minimal climate impact, Ingo brings a unique perspective on sustainable digital transformation.

🔑 Key Topics We Discuss 👇

• Redefining human autonomy through AI and assistive technologies
• Breakthroughs on the horizon in digital assistive tech
• Balancing AI autonomy with human control and ethics
• From fragmented solutions to scalable, humanistic systems
• The future of digital twins and AI-human interfaces
• Ensuring accessibility, adoption, and affordability
• Managing risks and maintaining AI alignment with human values
• Cross-industry applications of assistive innovation
• Future-proof advice for building a human-centric future

Connect with Ingo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ingo-paas-aa655a9/

Ingo's books
📕 "DIGITAL COMPOSABLE ENTERPRISES: An Evolutionary Approach to Innovate Organizations from the Core of the Business": https://www.amazon.se/DIGITAL-COMPOSABLE-ENTERPRISES-Evolutionary-Organizations/dp/B0C2RT9GY4

📗 "EMPOWERING HUMAN AUTONOMY: Alleviating Complex Disabilities with AI-Centric Humanistic Technologies": https://www.amazon.de/EMPOWERING-HUMAN-AUTONOMY-Disabilities-Technologies/dp/B0F32K7NHK

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Digital Transformation for Humans
• 4:15 Ingo's Personal Journey and Mission
• 13:45 Empowering Human Autonomy Through Technology
• 22:10 Digital Twins and AI Human Interfaces
• 30:35 Ethical Safeguards and Regulatory Challenges
• 36:37 AI Risks and the Path Forward
• 43:20 Transformative Impact of Digital Assistive Tech
• 44:45 Final Thoughts and Future Outlook

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Digital Transformation and AI for Humans with your host, amy. In this podcast, we delve into how technology intersects with leadership, innovation and, most importantly, the human spirit. Each episode features visionary leaders who understand that at the heart of success is the human touch nurturing a winning mindset, fostering emotional intelligence and building resilient teams. Fostering emotional intelligence and building resilient teams let's focus on human autonomy and artificial intelligence and discuss how to design a future where tech empowers individuals, together with my amazing guest from Stockholm, sweden, ingo Pass. Ingo is CIO and CDO at Green Cargo Global, emea and National CIO and Technology Award winner, and a visionary and book author. Green Cargo is Sweden's most experienced rail logistics provider, with roots tracing back to the origins of Swedish rail transport. The company delivers sustainable logistics solutions and plays a vital role in Scandinavian business, with 98% of transport operations carried out using electric trains, ensuring minimal climate impact. Green cargo transports approximately 20 million tons of goods annually. Welcome, ingo, how are you? It's so great to have you here today.

Speaker 2: 1:29

Thank you, Amy. It was a very nice and warm introduction and I'm very happy to be with you here today at the Digital Transformation and AI for Human podcast. It's a great pleasure and I think we have some exciting innovation to share and to discuss today.

Speaker 1: 1:47

I'm so looking forward to it and I agree it's going to be amazing. Let's start the conversation and transform not just our technologies, but our ways of thinking and leading. Interested in connecting or collaborating? Find more information in the description, Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes. I'd also love to invite you to get your copy of AI Leadership Compass Unlocking Business Growth and Innovation the definitive guide for leaders and business owners to adapt and thrive in the age of AI and digital transformation. Find the Amazon link in the description below. Ingo, to start with, I would love to hear more about your path, about your story, about what brought you to our today's topic.

Speaker 2: 2:42

I think, a very interesting life, and it's probably stuff that I've said before, but dominated by the experience of meeting exciting people, people with innovation, with skills and knowledge that I had the great advantage of learning from, and also lots of opportunities. So decisions to be made during that journey to turn left or turn right and open the door or not open the door, and in total, I actually did not plan to live in Sweden, but I came to Sweden with my job there and I was working in my career and suddenly that turned out to be my new home place. So these are things tonight that happened and it's about making decisions and also taking the opportunities that are along the way and appreciating the kind of choices you can make now.

Speaker 1: 3:45

Sounds very wise. Ingo, your new book Empowering Human Autonomy easing the burden of severe disabilities with humanistic assistive technologies presents a transformative vision for empowering individuals with severe disabilities. How do you see AI and digital assistive technologies fundamentally redefining human autonomy in ways we've never seen before? What are the biggest breakthroughs on the horizon?

Speaker 2: 4:16

Thank you. Yeah, this is true. I'm working on a new project and the book is called Empowering Human Autonomy. It's going to be available on Amazon, but I think I better explain the story why I'm writing and authoring this book, and it all goes back to the 1st of october 22. That was the day when my sons were born. So I'm having twins.

Speaker 2: 4:43

We are parents of two twins, 22 years old now, while the first one was actually facing some real struggles and without knowing what it was 2019, we got the diagnosis, as you say unknown and severe disability with complex problems. So one in 80 million is probably living with this diagnosis. So it's quite unusual and that has changed my life and the life of my family profoundly. Um, being confronted with a situation that you cannot prepare for, which is no um a deep experience, one of the deepest experiences I've ever made, if not the deepest experience and not being able to understand and change the situation, but being confronted with something that will last forever is not easy. It took me time to overcome it and I learned that, while we are living in the age of technology, there is very little technology that is actually available to empower individuals with complex disabilities to increase their ability in terms of making decisions or impacting situations or steering things or just collaborating or communicating, because these technologies do not exist. So my vision and my mission in life became to use my learnings from being a technology executive just recently working with Green Cargo, a rail transportation company that you so wonderfully introduced and taking most of the learnings from the last five and a half years in terms of applying technologies for business, to look at those technologies differently. And with the rise of generative AI, agentic capabilities so agents within AI, but also the semantic capabilities of knowledge graph databases Things are fundamentally changing, and that was actually leading me to the process of writing a book about how to empower human autonomy. So for the individual, with all the respect and all the ethical thinking, the protection, security and whatever you need to have, the integrity of the individual, but allowing technologies to empower human autonomy and to ease the burden of severe disabilities with humanistic assistive technologies. So this is a book project I'm working with and it's a very visionary approach and I think it will help to empower individuals significantly.

Speaker 2: 7:47

I do this as a father, I do this from my heart and I do this as an executive working with technologies. I'm very thankful for being in that situation that, while I'm faced with a long life problem, and my son especially faced with a long life problem that is impossible to resolve, I am now finding ways to at least improve this. And while doing it for my son, it will also be very important for his twin brother, because one day I will not be there anymore and who will go into continue fighting for my son that he will always have the best services, that people will love him, that people will do the best for him when I and my wife, when we are not here anymore to do that, when we are not here anymore to support him, when we are not here to be the caregivers every day. And I want to prepare for this transformation and that's the reason of my book to describe the future of assistive technologies, digital assistive technologies.

Speaker 2: 8:47

Digital assistive technologies that's already there, but no one is touching it, no one is doing something about it, and it's such a complex thing from understanding the problem to solving it and scaling it globally. I decided to write a book rather than building a company, because I don't have the time to build a company, so I want others to do that, and if I can be part of that. That's fine, but I want to inspire with the book. That's the main thing. It is my mission in life.

Speaker 1: 9:13

Thank you so much for sharing your life story. It's a really tough situation. You are a very strong and very wise person going through it by creating something that can enable not only your family and your son, but also so many others all over the world, and you are using everything you have in your toolbox and dedicate your lifetime to resolve this problem as much as you can, so I admire you. This is amazing that you wrote this book and that there is a solution through those technologies which is so close and, as you mentioned, probably already existing and just needs the implementation in the right way. With AI advancing rapidly, there is always the risk of over-automation. How can we design assistive AI solutions that maximize autonomy for individuals with disabilities, while ensuring human control? Adaptability and ethical responsibility remain at the core.

Speaker 2: 10:32

This is a very fundamental question. While working with the concept, I've invested a lot of time and energy into the research and also the learning about the know, the individual. I can reflect on this from 23 years experience with my son never being able to say a word and communicate in this way, but just you know interpreting the situation. So integrity is extremely important. I appreciate the situation of everyone, and everyone is different and there is no standard that we would like to achieve, but it is about the question of data protection, the ethical AI. It's about the adaptability to the individual and the ability to give everyone the choice to define his or her level of autonomy and use the tools in a toolbox to get where they want to be. Sometimes they can make those decisions, sometimes someone else needs to make those decisions, but it should be as individual as possible. It also is important to be respectful with the integrity of individuals. Integrity is not something you should never, ever compromise.

Speaker 2: 11:54

And then there comes the question of security and safety. So security is the cybersecurity question and the security of the data and your personal information and whatever is important for the individual, while safety is to protect and to avoid the individual to experience incidents caused by technology and severe problems or worse situations. So safety is a very important issue, especially as we see the rise of robotics and the rise of these kind of technologies coming closer to households. So this is a question of years before these returns will come. So I would say that the idea of bringing all of this to life is extremely important, to be done by respecting the individual, respecting policies, laws, rules and regulations, and to make sure to protect as much as possible, but not to forget the balance, because if you protect every single step, you would probably never do innovation. So to really find that balance in terms of innovating while protecting and this is the kind of difficult approach.

Speaker 2: 13:25

But the book will guide the reader through this and will explain how these kind of thoughts will be applied in practice when implementing it. And I think that you know if I would just summarize this with the ethical safeguards and the regulatory compliance and this kind of human-centered adaptability in the context of what I'm describing in my book, I think that we can develop assistive technology to empower individuals with complex disabilities and we can do this by, I think, maintaining the highest possible standards of private security, safety and inclusivity. So this is kind of my promise and the message from my book. Would that make sense to you, yumi?

Speaker 1: 14:14

I love how you just highlighted what really matters in such a clear way, because it is so important. It is crucial in order to move forward in a sustainable way, to build something that can really create the human-centric future. I know that you challenge fragmented approaches to assistive tech and advocate for a more scalable and humanistic system. What does that look like in practice? Can you share an example of a company or initiative that is successfully integrating these principles?

Speaker 2: 14:53

Yeah, you know being an advocate for a future of assistive technologies or digital assistive technologies, where we're talking about a holistic approach to technology that we do not have today, meaning that it's all going to be very new and it's all going to be very different and challenging, because there would no one be out there who says I'm the one being responsible now to invest so difficult to find these organizations, people or investors or practitioners who would really want to do something about it. But building a more scalable, humanistic system requires to move away from fragmented technology, because they are not effective. They are good because they help people to solve a single problem, and in business we see the same situation. It's always a focus on solving single problems rather than thinking about interoperability and the capabilities of autonomous technologies that would help you to build a system that is evolving over time, that's changing based on the needs of the individual using it. So fragmented technologies are a major problem today because they do not allow to scale. There are so many good technologies, but the idea is to rethink that situation and create a holistic perspective on technologies, while embedding those single technologies if possible, and that is also described quite intensively in the book and explaining what would that be? The technologies that could be integrated and what would it be? When it comes to the technologies that would be needed to build this kind of digital assistive future, there are very few if there are companies doing it. But even if you think holistic and you make holistic smaller, you will find companies thinking in that direction and working in this direction and doing extraordinarily good stuff. It's impressive what you see the moment you start thinking more holistically rather than being just focused on solving months in the problem.

Speaker 2: 17:17

The Scott Morgan Foundation is such an initiative. I think it's financed by Lenovo so they look into the problems of people with ALS, a well-known disability and problem that is very, very challenging for those with their declining capabilities and really challenging their lifetime and making it very difficult for those with their declining capabilities and really challenging their lifetime and making it very difficult for those people to overcome those ever faster declining human capabilities. So it's really a difficult thing. So this foundation has looked into how to empower people to better participate in societies and to learn from applying their technologies to, regardless of their physical limitations, be part of activities that help them to overcome certain problems. So it's still not the full holistic approach, but it's going into the direction. I really appreciate this. It's very good and interesting to see that.

Speaker 1: 18:28

It's great to hear that, even though there are not so many examples in the world, but still there are and you are in the position of the trailblazer in this area and you are creating the future. You are the role model for so many others and it is amazing that today you are sharing your experience and your wisdom this way. Ingo, one of the most intriguing parts of your book is the discussion on digital foundational infrastructures, digital twins and emerging AI human interfaces AI human interfaces. How do you see these technologies evolving over the next five years? What are the most promising yet realistic advancements we should be preparing for?

Speaker 2: 19:29

Yeah, this question really and I hope so engages the community of people listening how the technology looks like we would like to implement to solve the problems of people with these complex disabilities. So I start with explaining the infrastructure. Right, I try to make it as easy as possible to explain. So there's a horizontal layer and there's a vertical layer. In the horizontal layer, there will be many different platforms, the digital foundation that all of the digital interfaces will be built on. So the horizontal layer is including the analytics platforms, the integration platforms, the security platforms and whatever it is that you need to build this technology. And the vertical layer is where AI comes in to build and define the individual solution for those who are in need. So the idea and the vision is that every individual will have a digital twin, a person-digital twin, and connected agents to the digital twin that are collaborating with different roles, agents to the digital twin that are collaborating with different roles, and they all are building up the knowledge in the moment about the history, but also by preparing for the future, in collaborating and establishing the actions needed to translate the needs of the human being in terms of digital actions. So AI in combination and we're talking about generative AI in combination with knowledge graph technologies with all of the communication capabilities, and then agentive technologies with all of the communication capabilities and then agent technologies. So agents out there are connecting the caregivers, they're connecting key stakeholders around that individual and individual as such, but also communication capabilities with it could be a healthcare system or whatever and establishing that closed ecosystem around the person with complex disabilities. And the system is measuring biological data from biosensors and it's probably possible to interpret and I've written about 10 big use cases that are describing the implication of my technology in my book so they could use the data from sensors and interpret this and translate this that the person needs to go to the restroom, and the person would never be able to say that. So, instead of being 100% depending on the eyepist or that someone is shooting at the right time, the system could translate that into a communication and activity where the agents will receive the information and turn it into actions and talk to someone, send a text message or do whatever, but make sure the act of going to the bathroom will happen in good time. So I have hundreds of these examples and this was a very simple example to just explain it. And it will include communication. It will do so much more. So the technology is the foundation. It's the worst one to take with all of the hardcore technology that you need the platforms and then there will be very many digital twins for each individual participating in the future of a humanistic technology approach. So the horizontal layer is the infrastructure, while the vertical layer is the layer with the digital twins and digital agents, and I think you know this is with a few words explaining how that would happen in the coming years.

Speaker 2: 23:41

We already see semantic capabilities, which is knowledge graph technology, generative capabilities coming from LLM models, language models. We see agentic capabilities. These are the ones that are enabling autonomous operations. They do this through digital agents. We also see agentive not just agentic agentive representatives or capabilities referring to the digital agent's characteristics and actually help to make these agents to work in the digital ecosystems and executing functions with minimal human intervention. It's a complex technology but once it is in place you can integrate a lot of existing two-day assistive technologies and also commodity technologies at home, like sensor technologies. You can integrate speech systems. You can integrate sensors for light and temperature regulation and these kind of things. So you can certainly create that ecosystem around people and use that data to help improving their life quality. I'm sure this is going to work, but it will take a few weeks to get it done, amy. That was my estimation, at least.

Speaker 1: 25:05

It's definitely going to work and it sounds absolutely incredible. Once it is implemented, it is going to bring such a relief to every human, every individual in the process. So it is amazing how big of a change it might bring to humanity what you are working on, and it is absolutely incredibly impressive. Despite groundbreaking technological advances, adoption and accessibility remain key challenges. What do business leaders, policymakers and tech innovators need to do today to ensure affordable? Policymakers and tech innovators need to do today to ensure affordable, scalable and ethical digital assistive technologies become a reality for many.

Speaker 2: 26:00

What a good question and so difficult to answer. The thing is that we are living in a world where policies are becoming more and more important. While they play a vital role in helping us to deal with new technologies, at the same time, there is a risk that innovation will not happen because we are overreacting to those policies. So I personally think that when you look at the situation of someone with a very complex disability and you are extremely limited and you can improve that situation significantly, but then you find out that policies will not allow that and you would still stay there by knowing that it would be possible, they'll stay there by knowing that it would be possible. So maybe there needs to be a balance between the strictness of policies and what the technology should be allowed to do, and that is a quite difficult and sensitive thing. But I'm sure that with policymakers thinking about regulatory frameworks for inclusion and trust, they might be better prepared for setting the boundaries so that technology is not stopping us from doing innovation, doing good by making sure that the good stuff is done well. So it's a quite big challenge. They need to enable funding and they need to help us with public-private collaborations, bringing the people from research from different industries, investors and technology experts together, big tech companies, whatever it is. So this is going to be a quite important act that requires collaboration, and the ethical parts, from a policymaker point of view, should be developed while evolving the solution, rather than setting the total framework and then defining what the solution maximum could be, as as learning in that process would help to better balance those um frameworks and make sure that the regulations inspire and help rather than just, you know, protecting improvements that are absolutely necessary. And I need to need to say that because people should misunderstand me. It is not my intention to open up. It is my intention to really make sure that these regulations are there, that they are applied, but that when we define those regulations, they make a lot of sense and they help us to improve rather than they make a lot of sense and they help us to improve rather than they stop us from improving.

Speaker 2: 28:55

And I believe that, when you look at the innovation that comes with this platform, it will make digital assistive technologies affordable because they will be available on the mobile phone. You have to have sensor technologies. You have to have sensor technologies, you have to have connectivities, you have to build a lot of stuff around, but the main stuff will happen on the phone, so it is going to be affordable. And then you make it also accessible and you make it also and that's quite important scalable, because you want to make it available to very many people and you want to make sure that when you solve the problem, you learn how to solve more problems, because that is the scalability aspect of that technology. So I think that by aligning your business, innovation, the kind of thinking that needs to take place to build such a technology policy activities and technological advancements these stakeholders need to collaboratively work on that and that can help to empower the autonomy for millions of people worldwide. I think worldwide.

Speaker 1: 30:08

I think Definitely, and I totally agree that scalability and also sustainability are crucial in this sense, and I would like to dive just a little bit deeper into this topic. As AI becomes more powerful and autonomous, there is increasing concern about its unintended consequences. What are the biggest risks if we lose control over AI development? How can we ensure that AI remains aligned with human values, particularly when it comes to assistive technologies?

Speaker 2: 30:46

Yeah, I think it's a question that is relevant to everyone, to every business, to those working with AI.

Speaker 2: 30:52

It doesn't matter if this is assistive technologies or digital assistive technologies or if it's any kind of digital technology where AI is involved in any business. I think that the risk that we see right now is that one day, humanity will lose control and when we talk about AI, there will also be eventually a differentiation between regional AI. So having that maybe AI in some countries such as China could be specific, or in North America it could be specific, or in Europe it could be specific because we have European Union AI Act, so it makes our AI different. This is a geopolitical thing and therefore a regional differentiation that we're going to see in AI and, as I'm now living in Europe and in Sweden, specifically Stockholm, so I think that the control that we should not lose is probably a control that we never really had because of the systems have continuously developed, and I think it is a fair statement to say that we have to be prepared for AI to autonomously expand its knowledge and it will become much more intelligent than human beings are. It will not take long time until we reach that point. There is a risk of self-duplication and uncontrolled profileration of these systems. That could happen, and they can distribute their intelligence across networks, so you don't really know where they are. And self-applicating stuff is quite difficult to maintain and if we do not talk the same language anymore, maybe they develop their own language. So how do they communicate with us? What is the reasoning and what we call reasoning in terms of human capabilities? That is happening inside a system is very difficult to pretend. So I think that, in addition, also the kind of convergence that we see and the AI system fusion is going to be quite a challenge for us where they will be, where AI is going to take and find its place, and where the boundaries are, if there are boundaries. So the exponential growth of intelligence from these systems will outperform human intelligence and the day will come when we have very little control.

Speaker 2: 33:25

So until this day, I hope that digital assistive technologies will help individuals and we will find a way to protect those as much as we have to protect everyone else. So it's not a question about digital assistive technologies. It's a question about the race of AI in relation to where humanity is and will be in terms of the total intelligence level that we talk about that an AI system is capable to develop. So we have to make sure we do the oversight we can and implement adaptive governance, make sure that we have this and you said this before human-centered AI design. We have to find the mechanisms that help us to embed the right levels of protection, which is difficult, and make the decision-making process of the AI systems more transparent, so that we understand how AI aligns actions with social values or with societal values. So it's quite difficult and also the adaptability is ethical.

Speaker 2: 34:39

Safeguarding of those protective measures is quite difficult, because how do we do surveillance of what's happening inside the system if we don't know what the system is doing? So this is a question for humanity, it's not a question for assistive technologies, but it is something that we all need to work with. Question for assistive technologies, but it is something that we all need to work with. And if I would summarize this very difficult question, I would say that we have to do whatever we can to prevent that AI systems go out of control. I'm positive to AI, but there are some kind of significant risks that we need to deal with. That would be my answer, amy.

Speaker 1: 35:26

I really appreciate it and I think it's a very interesting topic actually. So I have another couple of questions, difficult questions connected to this one. If singularity comes, or when it happens, where do you think it is on the timeline? And I also wonder if you believe we would notice that moment or not or not.

Speaker 2: 35:59

Yeah, I think, if I get it right, with what we call the singularity, that's when all of the combined knowledge of human kind is outperformed by AI, and I think that it's going to be, it's going to happen in 15 years, if not faster. So if we see acceleration in quantum computing and see that things are changing rapidly, so this is going to be the point of time. So in 15 years from now, I would say maybe 20, maybe 10. No one really knows, but in 10 to 20 years. But I think that, looking forward and thinking about these kind of very disrupted moments, for me the focus now is to shift and to expand my thinking towards the future of those people concerned that need our support.

Speaker 2: 37:02

These are the ones with complex disabilities and these are the ones with the role of a loving caregiver, such as I am one of those, as my wife is one of those and my son's brother twin brother is also one of those. This is a huge group of people that we should not forget. They live and dedicate their lives to support those who are often essentially asking and need help in every aspect of life, every day. So 24-7, for 10 years, 20 years, 30, 40 years. This is a huge responsibility and, as a father of my firstborn son with this very complex disability complex disability my hope and my focus is to engage others, helping me and helping us to leverage technologies, take them and create something that is good for many, and do it as fast as possible, as the technology already exists.

Speaker 2: 38:16

Even though we have many problems to solve, it will be possible. So I'm calling for support and I'm using my book as a tool to explain how this could be done. And if you do not understand the problem, you might have problems to understand why would you do this technology, but the book goes deep into the problem discussion. So, and human autonomy is something that we all appreciate without understanding how important it is. I want to close my answer here in terms of saying that I trust in technology, emi, and I think that you know we're going to see amazing improvements, and if people, policymakers, investors and tech gurus, tech companies and those working with deep research collaborate, I think we could do a lot of good.

Speaker 1: 39:16

I think we could do a lot of good. What you are doing is really admirable and commendable, and the way you are spreading the word is so impactful. What transformative impacts will the innovations in your book have on the field of digital assistive technologies, and in what ways can other industries benefit from your innovative thinking?

Speaker 2: 39:46

Two very good questions, I think the first one is that the technology I would not do a deep dive into technology here, but would give individuals the opportunity to evolve and to find areas where they can do things they have never been able to do before, and that is about cognitive capabilities, increasing opportunities of the human individual to collaborate and share and communicate. Then it is about the physical capabilities that you could use robotic capabilities in the future, that you have a digital twin that is governing the robot, so that the robot is autonomous to make movements, but you don't want the robot to make decisions, so it's better to have your own digital twin that controls the robot and communicates with the device so that you can trust that when you're alone with the robot, that the robot is not doing harmful things to you. So this is another thing that is helping in improving the physical movements into the future and being less dependent on caregivers. It's a long-term future. Caregivers, it's a long-term future, but also the social part of it To give these people who cannot engage because of their limitations and there are so many limitations to make it impossible to be part of normal social events. So allow them to do this, allow them to have a job and have an AI system that gets heard and having the capabilities of a lawyer when needed. So when you do your application about the support, you need to just sacrifice and make sure that you can live your life on a very low financial level, but at least you can get what you deserve so that you have the opportunity to fight for your rights and not be dependent on others.

Speaker 2: 41:43

And then, I think, the last question how could this be used by other companies? You know, I took this model from Green Cargo, so I can only think that I work within telecom industry, I work within retail, I work within wholesale in the sporting goods industry and I work in the pharmacy industry and I also work in the industry of transportation. So I think you can easily use that in different industries. And if you wonder why, because the principles of technology are the same and the decisions we all want to make in business or in private life, they all relate on data, and so I think it is possible to use that differently and in many, many industries in many cases.

Speaker 2: 42:50

And if one wants to read the book, I need to talk about this, obviously. So the book is going to be on Amazon and you just Google my name, ingo Paas, and you will find one book that is already there. But you really want to watch out for the book Empowering Human Autonomy, because this is the future of humanity for those who are not having as much luck as we and having a more complex life. Thank you, amy.

Speaker 1: 43:27

This is amazing. It is truly inspiring the way you could gather all your experiences, all your knowledge and reply into the area which really needs more dedication and more attention from leaders who can bring those golden nuggets from different other verticals. It is something truly important and it gives hope for so many individuals in the world. Ingo, to wrap up today's fantastic conversation, if you were to give one future-proof piece of advice, what would it be to co-create a truly human-centric, brighter future would it be to co-create a truly human-centric, brighter future, to co-create and redefine the boundaries of what you think is possible.

Speaker 2: 44:30

Not be too busy with the learnings from your past and try to be experimental. Think transformational and exponential. Exponential, but do incremental stuff amazing.

Speaker 1: 44:44

Thank you so much, and thank you for sharing your innovative approach, your dedication, your light with us today. It's going to transform the future in a truly incredible way. Thank you so much for your dedication, your work, your time and for being here with us today, really appreciated. Thank you for joining us on Digital Transformation and AI for Humans. I'm Amy and it was enriching to share this time with you. Remember, the core of any transformation lies in our human nature how we think, feel and connect with others. It is about enhancing our emotional intelligence, embracing a winning mindset and leading with empathy and insight. Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes where we uncover the latest trends in digital business and explore the human side of technology and leadership. Until next time, keep nurturing your mind, fostering your connections and leading with heart.