S1:Ep73 Immersive Tech & AI: Business Transformation in the Era of AR, VR & XR

In today’s episode, we’re diving into the Immersive Tech & AI. We’ll take a closer look at The Future of Business in the Era of AR, VR & XR, together with Albert Bengtson from Stockholm, Sweden - ex-senior leader at Apple, book author, and co-author of the 4C model.

As an entrepreneur, Albert founded several companies, one of which won Elon Musk’s annual Developer Challenge while still at PayPal. For more than a decade, he worked as an enterprise evangelist at a large multinational corporation, coaching and connecting intrapreneurial talent to drive purpose and impact in retail, banking, and logistics.

This conversation explores how Artificial Intelligence is reshaping immersive technologies like Augmented Reality (AR), Virtual Reality (VR), and Extended Reality (XR) - and what this means for business leaders who want to stay competitive in a fast-changing landscape.

🔑 Key Discussion Points

• How AI is making AR, VR, and XR experiences more intelligent, adaptive, and human-like
• Where real business value is being created with immersive technologies today vs. the hype around the metaverse
• Industries being disrupted by immersive tech (retail, healthcare, education) - and the next big frontiers
• The role of AI-powered digital humans and virtual assistants in customer service, training, and collaboration
• How AI-generated 3D environments and real-time video content are transforming immersive applications
• Balancing innovation with security, privacy, and ethical considerations.
• The three most crucial steps leaders must take today to prepare for the future of AI and immersive tech

If you’re a business leader, innovator, or entrepreneur looking to understand how AI + AR/VR/XR will drive growth and transformation in the coming years, this episode is packed with future-ready insights you can’t miss.

🔗 Connect with Albert on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/albertbengtson/
📕 Book "Principles of Intrapreneurial Capital": https://www.adlibris.com/se/e-bok/principles-of-intrapreneurial-capital-9789198838114

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Digital Transformation
• 5:31 Albert Benson's Entrepreneurial Journey
• 13:24 AI-Powered Immersive Technologies
• 22:04 Real Business Value in AR/VR
• 31:17 AI-Powered Digital Humans
• 39:36 Purpose-Driven Technology Development

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Digital Transformation and AI for Humans with your host, amy. In this podcast, we delve into how technology intersects with leadership, innovation and, most importantly, the human spirit. Each episode features visionary leaders who understand that at the heart of success is the human touch nurturing a winning mindset, fostering emotional intelligence and building resilient teams. In today's episode, we are diving into the immersive tech and artificial intelligence. We will take a closer look at the future of business in the era of virtual reality and extended reality, together with Albert Benson from Stockholm, Sweden, ex-senior leader at Apple book author, co-author of the 4C model. As an entrepreneur, albert founded several companies, one of which won Elon Musk's annual developer challenge award. While still at PayPal, for more than a decade, he worked as an enterprise evangelist at a large multinational corporation, coaching and connecting entrepreneurial talent to drive purpose and impact in retail, banking and logistics. Welcome, albert, it's such a pleasure to have you here in the studio today.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 1:20

Let's start the conversation and transform not just our technologies but our ways of thinking and leading. If you are interested in connecting or collaborating, you can find more information in the description. Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes. I would also love to invite you to get your copy of AI Leadership Compass Unlocking Business Growth and Innovation the definitive guide for leaders and business owners to adapt and thrive in the age of ai and digital transformation. Find the amazon link in the description below. Albert, it's so great to have this conversation today, such an exciting topic and to start with, I would love to hear a few words about yourself, your journey and your passion. Could you tell us a little bit more?

Speaker 2: 2:07

I went to business school in the late 90s and all the courses I took I analyzed what was happening on the internet and what was happening to the new world and just understanding how these companies were changing the whole infrastructure and the whole setup for how people and business are interacting with each other. It was truly a pioneer mission to see how that is happening. So I fell in love with it and I started to work as an entrepreneur. I didn't do the timing right. I started to work with large companies and trying to understand their business needs and also the larger problems with governance of this new technology and understanding how to adapt it. Therefore, my love for entrepreneurship came understanding these people who are very curious, standing in the forefront and really trying to receive the new technology and use that to enhance business in the large corporates.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Amazing Sounds very inspiring. As AI integrates with immersive technologies like augmented reality, virtual reality and extended reality, businesses are redefining how they engage customers, employees and drive innovation. How will these visual technologies shape the future of industries, and what strategies should leaders adopt already today to stay ahead?

Speaker 2: 3:36

Oh, that's a great question. So back in September I was hosting, actually a hackathon for Meta and we had 125 participants from all over the world. Every continent was covered except the poles. The interesting part, when people started to collaborate on this and try to play around with the technology, the visual technology, we saw that when this is being fed by artificial intelligence from the behind, from the data points, it became extremely interesting. So I would put it like this the usual chat you have with customer service on your webpage for that turning into living avatars, it's not too hard to fantasize about. But also all data sets that you have can and will be turned into these kind of vivid avatars, so to say. And I think the interesting part in this is how is this going to change the mind or the feeling, or how we integrate as humans? We have been making fun of people falling in love with the AI and all that, and it's very awkward, so to say. Cringe, my daughter would say.

Speaker 2: 4:49

But when you think about it, we made a virtual bartender and I think that is quite interesting. So you come to a bar and you can order a virtual drink and you can have any kind of discussion with this bartender. In that process we were discussing what to name it. We named it NDA Never Drink Alone Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 5:20

What we wanted to analyze is that, if you sit there and have a drink, even though you have a real drink in your hand, and you're having this conversation with a bartender a virtual bartender who has 60,000 simultaneous bars with other people in them, and he or she still remembers everything you've been talking about last time you've been there, and it can mirror the feelings that you have and understand where you're going, where you have been, what needs you have. What we wanted to discuss with that was when will that conversation become a more real and spiritual, satisfying discussion with you, since that bartender asks the right questions and do everything in the right way just to mirroring you and and make you feel seen, which could, in in real life, be something that a lot of people lack. So just understanding that and maybe not starting with love, starting with a bartender trying to analyze where this is going to take us, I think it's extremely interesting.

Speaker 1: 6:27

It sounds like the future, but at the same time, it is incredibly amazing that we are living in that future. We couldn't even imagine landing in our reality, and that's a fantastic example. Landing in our reality, and that's a fantastic example. And truly many humans are lacking that connection and empathy and just a soul-to-soul conversation in today's world. So that example is amazing.

Speaker 2: 7:01

Yes, I see a lot of business-related things with this as well. I was talking to Hitachi Energy, which are a company that are to employ 2000 engineers, and these engineers are to be working in Arctic climate where the temperature can drop below 30 minus Celsius. These probably are going to be people recruited from where the average temperature daytime is plus 30 degrees. How do you prepare for such and how do you actually make this different? How can you immerse yourself into understanding these kinds of differences? And I think that just doing pre-boarding and doing that kind of help before a company really moves somebody from the other side of the world to another place can be trained, and the best business case when it comes to both AR and VR I think especially VR is training.

Speaker 1: 8:02

I want to dive deeper here. Ai is making AR, VR and XR experiences more intelligent and adaptive. So what are some of the most groundbreaking AI-powered immersive applications that you've seen in your life, and how do you see AI transforming these technologies over the next two to five years?

Speaker 2: 8:26

It's always hard to say which one is the most impressive, because you can be impressive in different ways. As we discussed before, the time of AI, the speed Moore's law of AI is so much faster than it is for semiconductors. Right 15 years ago, I did a keynote on stage talking about what's going to happen in the future. We were thinking about maybe three, five years ahead and I was wearing these augmented reality glasses and I was talking about augmented reality dating, since you could have face recognition already back then. Connect that with all the data sources you have, with all the dating apps. Governmental information you can get from just knowing people to your social graph, putting that into a layer on top, just walking around in a party with glasses like the ones you are having on. I don't know if they are ar ready or not that's a secret well, it's 2025.

Speaker 2: 9:26

We're recording, just saying for everyone. But that is the reality. Right Soon, everybody's going to be wearing glasses and you cannot tell if they are AR enabled or not, putting that kind of the layer of internet on top of your reality and having that as a tool taking all the decisions, decisions, everything from how to talk to people and how to take decision. It's going to be a natural thing and that is where we're going to be in in a very close future. It's a lot of money. It's just a when, so to say.

Speaker 1: 10:06

Exactly, I totally agree, and this is a very interesting topic. The metaverse once dominated headlines. Metaverse was everywhere, but now companies are shifting towards more practical applications of AR and VR. Where do you see real business value being created with these technologies today, and how should businesses distinguish hype from real opportunity?

Speaker 2: 10:36

So there are certain different use of cases that I think is quite interesting.

Speaker 2: 10:43

Maybe where I would start as a company right now. It depends on, of course, what company I work in. I would say that learning is one of the absolutely most interesting parts right now, and it's about learning not only the facts. Like this is how you do it, it's much more emotional learning. So, max, as the bartender turning him away from being a bartender to being a boss, that is treating you badly, and for you to try to discuss with this boss and trying to see how to having such a conversation I think that is super interesting. I see also that the Swedish government have several applications for treating people with misbehavior coming in and shouting at you at a library, for example, or social workers that see aggressive individuals in meetings, and things like that. I think that is super interesting because in an immersive experience, you add on your feelings in a much more effective way than you do in a flat screen video mode, so to say yes, that's true.

Speaker 1: 11:52

Immersive technologies are already transforming sectors like retail, health care, education and so many others, but which industries do you think are next in line for major disruption? Can you share any examples of companies successfully implementing ar, vr or xr at scale?

Speaker 2: 12:12

yeah, well, I just had a business case with bcg helping a governmental railway company to add an application that was for the kind of glasses the flat, regular glasses with augmented reality on top of application and it seems to be very, very effective. And it's been applied very recently, so I don't have the results yet, but they are extremely hopeful about the technology on their website. So that is a good example. It's an example that has a real business case behind it, which is important, I think.

Speaker 1: 12:49

It is important, I agree. Thank you for sharing One of the biggest barriers to VR and VR adoption in our world, in our today's realities user experience. How can advancements make these technologies more seamless, intuitive and widely adopted?

Speaker 2: 13:08

Let's go back to the smartphone era.

Speaker 2: 13:10

I think one of the most intelligent innovations that Apple actually put in the market was the App Store, right? So the App Store was extremely controlled by Apple for its user interface, and there was something called the HIG the user interface guideline which was to be followed and which is to be followed when you do apps. Otherwise it wouldn't come through, otherwise it wouldn't be launched on the App Store and you couldn't get it into your phone. There were actually two things that this controlled. First of all, that the app really worked and did what it had to do, and I think that is a super important part that is hardly curated in that kind of a sense so that everybody could trust the things that is being put in there. The second, which is even more important, is how the app user experience elements are actually being used.

Speaker 2: 14:07

A lot of the time, apps that were using graphics in the wrong way were fused and people didn't understand why. Why is this happening? But following the user guide, the human interface guidelines, it really made it so simple for anyone to open an app and understand exactly what to do or how to interact with it. Therefore, a lot of kids I mean three-year-olds. They can open an app and they could start using the app directly, and that is to the HIG. It's much harder.

Speaker 2: 14:41

In the way a website is being built, the same kind of logic is not there. Anybody could put a website, put the forward button on the left as an example, and all of a sudden people wouldn't understand where to go. This is the same kind of challenge, I think, which is in the applications we have in XR today. There is not a common human interface guideline. We lack that kind of straightforwardness which makes it take a long time sometimes maybe too long time for you to get into the game or get into the application, just trying to learn how to use the application first. So that is a challenge. I think it will mature. It's going to be very interesting to follow that discussion on the software side of things.

Speaker 1: 15:32

I couldn't agree more. Of course, right now we have several challenges, but at the same time, it's uncomparable with how it was a few years ago, and I trust that in a few years we're going to find ourselves in a completely different place.

Speaker 2: 15:50

I totally agree with you and I think the hardware it's much better than people expect already today. The software parts when it comes to the engines of making these kind of content, I think it's improving extremely rapid, both Unity and Unreal platform doing extremely interesting things forward. I think that what is truly lacking when it comes to the consumer side right now, it's games that you are not shooting people and killing zombies. Having a more broadly spread kind of idea of how to make this content and make this interaction with the users would be super interesting, because that is also something that needs to spill over to the B2B world. We need to fantasize more about this. We need to have hackathons, we need to train ourselves more about this. We need to have hackathons, we need to train ourselves and have discussions and collaborations, because that's when we really see that we're taking frog leaps when it comes to content.

Speaker 1: 16:55

Oh, yes, that's so true. Ai-powered digital humans if we can call them digital humans and virtual assistants are becoming increasingly lifelike in AR and VR environments. How will they reshape customer service, training and collaboration in the near future? Speaking about business applications, and what ethical considerations should businesses keep in mind?

Speaker 2: 17:25

In general, customer service is an extremely mistreated part of the company. I would say I would start there. 15 years ago, I was going on a campaign and trying to say that customer service should no longer be named customer service. It should be named research and development and the team the customer service team instead of being outsourced, it should be people that work for that company and they should sit in the middle of the room with the rest of research and development and they should have about the same salary as the people in research and development. All of a sudden, you would take that much more seriously. I mean, everything that is failing with a product comes in through customer service, and understanding the business needs and needs to be evolved or even transformed is going to come through customer service, all the ideas of what to do. It's so important, it's extremely important. So, first of all, having that said, being able to faster and with more precision doing customer service with these kind of AI-based agents, of course, I mean that's exactly what you should be doing.

Speaker 2: 18:41

A lot of tests shown that people are more open to speak to an AI than even a nurse. A nurse is sometimes stressed and personally attached An AI-driven robot that is doing the things in a better way and have much more ease to reach into. Structural data is also something that could be very positive, but why not have both? I mean, I think it's extremely important to also have, like, a physical place or a physical store or whatever you call it, so people could come in with their things. If it's a consumer kind of view, but once again, really going down looking at these kind of applications, I think it's something that we shouldn't wait for it. There are so many solutions out there that are already extremely good, and for the web, for the phone and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 19:36

I should definitely consider that straight away if I were running a company with a having a customer service I totally agree and I believe that the digital version might be stronger in many aspects, but it still can't and will never be able to replace another human for a human.

Speaker 2: 20:00

So it should be a teamwork, some kind of collaboration, when we are elevating each other and I strongly believe in this concept and develop educational programs myself, develop educational programs myself where ai becomes an assistant to the human being and we can collaborate and co-create to create a better world where we have so many more opportunities based on digital solutions I totally agree and I would love to also, when we are innovating and we're talking about what kind of process to innovate on, and what is AI going to do and what is a human going to do, we divided, like the Greeks did, in three different layers Episteme, which is the ground of work, what needs to be done If you're making glasses, the glasses, the things that you need to produce, right. And then you have the second layer, which is techna. Techna is the one planning and innovating for the future, and that is the architecture and seeing that you have the right tools and doing all that. Then you have forensics, and that's a fingertip feeling for the things that you're doing. There you have the ethics and there you have the purpose of what you're doing. As Phil Kotler did earlier this year, he put another P into his former 4P right, and that is for purpose. And I think that is really important because now, companies, we are facing extremely escalating time of innovation and the companies that are not coping with it will not successfully come out on the other side.

Speaker 2: 21:40

When that happens, you as a company need to go back and see what's our purpose, what's our core purpose, why are we doing this? How is that going to be useful in the future? And that is the fingertip feeling and the fingertip feeling you get when you sit down and having great conversation, deep great conversation with humans, and it's the humanity of this that is extremely important. If the layer 1, 2, 3, as said, if that is seen as a pyramid, we should do the same. We should turn that around 180 degrees. We shouldn't be doing episteme. We should collaborate with AI on techna, but we, as humans, we should sit, have deep conversation, understanding why are we on earth? How do we want to face the new reality that we are building? What is most important for us? How do we want to have a future?

Speaker 1: 22:38

Brilliant, this is absolutely brilliant, and I couldn't agree more. And it's still not often, to say the least, that I hear this perspective, and that's why it's so appreciated when you mention it and introduce the approach in that way, based on ancient methods which are actually applied in so many ways in today's modern world and we don't even realize it. But still, it's probably about time to rethink, dig deeper in order to understand the purpose, because without purpose, there is no way to apply this amazing, super powerful technologies for the better future and in the way which is going to be really sustainable and future proof Exactly.

Speaker 2: 23:32

I mean, how many times have you said having a lunch and you are in an extremely interesting conversation and somebody look at the watch and say, oh, I have to go back to work now. Seriously, you're working now. This is work.

Speaker 1: 23:46

So true, and that's exactly the point that we divide all those parts. And you know, even when somebody is talking about the work-life balance, it's still same you. There is no two different, separated avatars operating according to certain hours in those 24-hour cycles. So it is about finding the opportunities and being as efficient as possible and as meaningful as possible and find the purpose in order to create that leap and move into the future in a more powerful way. But when I'm thinking about moving into the future in a powerful way, I can't not ask you about Moving into the future in a powerful way. I can't not ask you about security and privacy concerns. They are growing as businesses collect more data from immersive experiences. How can companies balance innovation with responsible data usage in AR, vr and XR environments?

Speaker 2: 24:53

Yeah, that's an extremely hard question. I'm not an expert when it comes to data security, but I do understand the challenge. Talking about governance, one of the things that I usually talk to management groups is how do you prepare yourself for the unknown? What kind of unit do you have to meet up? And this comes down to entrepreneurship, right? So let's say you have organizational support for an entrepreneurial group. That entrepreneurial group is a task force for all the new immersive technology that happens outside of the company and it's really the changing environment. And they are prepared and they are working in a different way for preparing the organization for this tsunami of possibilities that is coming right to us.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Okay, so you need a head of that group. But let's say you're going to recruit you're going to be 50 people. Let's say you're a large company who are the second in place? That's usually my question. It's a 10 minutes discussion or something like that and I usually come up with who is the second person you should get into such a group?

Speaker 2: 26:07

Should somebody who is responsible for the ethics and the purpose of why you're doing this, and somebody that is holier than the revenue that you're making, because people say that that oh, it's money is the most important, but but it's. That is not true. I think the most modern way of looking at work is the employees and and the customers, the real humans that you're touching with. Whatever you're making is the most important, and that comes down to purpose, right? Apple have Apple education and they have a Dean that is being responsible for that part, and that is the same kind of somebody who are more dedicated to the real purpose than to the quarterly revenues, and that is a compass that you need to have when you are working with emerging technologies, because without that kind of compass, it's going to be extremely hard to see what is the possibility, what's a threat and what could possibly make the purpose for our employees to come to work redundant.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Definitely.

Speaker 1: 27:20

I see so many challenges in this area because absolutely the moral compass needs to be implemented when we are developing these type of powerful technologies which might threaten whole the essence of our human civilization.

Speaker 1: 27:42

And on top of that, probably you see the same as I do, that AI applications today they are developed for short-term profits and it is just a money machine machine, oftentimes without searching for the deeper purpose. And right now it's still mostly let's create this, let's do this just because we can, and then we'll see. But to create something based on the why, instead of just multiplying those solutions. It would be probably a good thing at this stage because we already created enough to understand the application areas and potential opportunities practically. But now it is about time to start thinking what's next? How are we going to develop it for real and apply in real business so that it makes sense in real life for the future generations as well, not just for our quarterly report, green numbers or annual results. But of course somebody needs to keep the lights on as well, and it's understandable. But it requires probably more balance in those two areas when we're talking about this level of impact from the technology side from the technology side.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Yeah, 100%. Going back to forensics, I mean the third level of work. This is what we need to be discussing. This should be discussed many hours a week in all companies right now, because we need to have that. Without that, possibilities of understanding what moral dilemmas we are going into, what kind of morals do we want to have? Without that, we're going to build a world that we don't want.

Speaker 1: 29:44

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 29:45

And that discussion is now. It's not tomorrow. It's now or if we're not too late already.

Speaker 1: 29:53

We are almost too late. I remember my conversation with somebody who is developing very high-level, high-impact technologies, based on AI, of course, and I exactly mentioned the same point, and the answer was that actually we should have these conversations 10 years ago, maybe worst case scenario, five years ago, but today it is too late. But I still trust that it is not too late and today is the latest possible when we can be relevant and discuss this before it is truly too late. So it is important and it is not just scarcity, it is about urgency in the best sense, so that we understand why and we understand how and we prioritize what really matters yeah, it's very interesting what you say and and it's a much more global.

Speaker 2: 31:01

It's not only in the micro and the macro, it's also in the global perspective. When humanity is doing frog leap in technology and really, you know, crossing over from one paradigm to another, there's always it's in human nature that somebody pops up and try to move resources towards their selves. So, to put it in a very kind way, this happened in Europe in late 30s, when we were able to build roads and cars, and therefore also tanks, in a much more efficient way. The country that would understand how to use this started to be very efficient in such a way that never, ever, had been seen before, as in Blitzkrieg, and all of that. The same thing is, of course, happening right now.

Speaker 2: 31:46

That is a large challenge. How do we have conversation that is not polarizing ourselves, rather putting a warm blanket around us and make us go to the center and collaborate and be human towards all humans? Technology leaps are tearing us apart. It's separating the rich from the poor, those with possibilities against those who don't have the possibilities. I think it's extremely important we open up for conversation in these kinds of rooms as well. Otherwise we're facing a very talking about the technology where it's going to be in two to five years.

Speaker 1: 32:23

This depends on what rooms we open up for, and right now a lot of those doors to those kind of conversations are very closed I totally agree exactly, but that's why we have this type of conversations, and they are invaluable, because they are opening new doors and they are also opening new minds and they are preparing for the new game, based on a different set of rules which are going to apply in the future, and it should be applied already today. But I see that many leaders are still running the new game based on the old rules, old mindsets and old skill sets as well, and that is not going to be a winning concept, no matter how you slice and dice. So, albert, what are the three most crucial steps business leaders should take today to stay ahead in AI and immersive technologies, today and tomorrow?

Speaker 2: 33:33

Oh perfect, I actually have them in my head.

Speaker 1: 33:37

Wow.

Speaker 2: 33:38

Yeah, it's the same as building entrepreneurial capital, which I think is important. When you have chosen to build a unit that is responsible for facing this, you need to give them organizational support. That means that you have a business unit. Everybody knows who they are, everybody knows how they are working and they are working in a different way and they have different business goals and they have different privileges. As an example, they could communicate cross-organizational and doing all that. So they have that organizational support for actually being an entrepreneurial spirit inside the large company and they are also responsible for having the conversation with teams outside of the company. Responsible for having the conversation with teams outside of the company to be out there and start understanding how the technology is shaping their environment that they're operating in in a short and long future, so to say. When you have that organizational support and they don't need to be a lot of people, once again, it's a small, efficient team. When you have that in place or this is not serial you need to do all these three at the same time.

Speaker 2: 34:46

Point number two you need to have in place for this to start working is a culture changing program for all the staff inside of the company, and it should be focused a lot on collaboration, not only within the team, but also between cross silos. So teams from different parts should be talking to each other and you should build meeting places where this is being forced might be a harsh word, but where you help people to mingle between the silos. I think it's extremely important, and also that it's being that you start working with companies outside of the organization and then it becomes really, really scary. Right, oh, we don't. You need to have an NDA to talk to me and you lock everybody down, but that is actually hindering you or hindering the company to get new influence into the company. This should be very, very open. I mean, and all the successful companies that in innovation has been doing this for ages, doing campfires, as an example.

Speaker 2: 36:05

Each Thursday evening, you invite a company, they come and talk for 30 minutes what they're doing, and the staff could have pizza and beer and asking questions, and you sit around having discussions. How is this being done? How can you do? How do you think? Because that is opening up and making us understand, going back to Francis, right, going back to really understand what's possible out there and what kind of future do we want to shape, and that you can only do that in collaboration. It's only when we sit down and have deep conversation with each other and deep thoughts. That's when it's being done, and there are many different tools that can be used for this to happen. But you need to have a budget and need to do this and you need to have somebody driving this, and preferable the same unit as building the entrepreneurial capital and preparing for the future.

Speaker 2: 37:05

I went to a conference which was super interesting. Six or seven different AI companies came and pitched to the audience Not the regular. I need an investment and all that. No, rather, this is what we're doing and this is why we're going to take over the world and this is what we think is so interesting with ai and what can be done today. Then people were sitting with a mentimeter saying is this important for me, my company or the country, or the world? So, in a more international kind of view and it was extremely interesting to see the results and just listening to the buzz afterwards people coming up to them and say is this real, is this actually happening right now? Because in a large company, you do not collaborate with this kind of companies. They're too young and I mean it takes longer time to get a PO number in a company that they've been around. That's true.

Speaker 1: 38:04

That's a great comparison.

Speaker 2: 38:07

So that is the second point. When it comes to the third point, which probably is where it's easiest to start and where companies already have budgets, it's about the leadership. Leadership needs to be ambidextrous. Ambidextrous means usually that you can use both hands equally good, then you're two-handed. If you can write your name with your left hand in the same manner you do with the right hand, you're two-handed. When you can do it simultaneously at the same time, then you are ambidextrous, then you are ambidextrous.

Speaker 2: 38:45

So what we try to say about the leadership is that everybody in the company should not be led equally and at the same time.

Speaker 2: 38:52

Everything depends on are you in the creative part, where you are to explore the future, and you need to have a certain kind of.

Speaker 2: 39:02

First of all, the entrepreneurial team is going to have a total different worldview and see the world in a different way from the people who are in the stable system and in the exploit mode.

Speaker 2: 39:14

But you need to have, so to say, operative system in the company at the same time, and that is the leaders need to be able to handle both at the same time and understanding when are things in the changing system, when do you explore things and how do you lead in exploration and when you want to exploit something and you want to get it into the production and it needs to be fixed, and things like that. Yes, that needs a different kind of leadership, but for a change to happen, you need to have both leaderships happening at the same time, and that is something that could be taught to leaders, and there is a budget already for starting to do that, and that is something we are looking into a lot in the companies that I work with. So it's organizational support for entrepreneurship and this change and it's collaboration between people, and then you have ambidextrous leadership. So those three Beautiful.

Speaker 1: 40:24

Thank you so much for sharing your vision, and it's been a very deep and wise conversation today, so I truly appreciate it. Albert, thank you so much for being here and sharing with us your experience and your insights as well, truly appreciated.

Speaker 2: 40:45

Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 40:47

Thank you for joining us on Digital Transformation and AI for Humans. I'm Amy and it was enriching to share this time with you. Remember, the core of any transformation lies in our human nature how we think, feel and connect with others. It is about enhancing our emotional intelligence, embracing a winning mindset and leading with empathy and insight. Subscribe and stay tuned for more episodes where we uncover the latest trends in digital business and explore the human side of technology and leadership. Until next time, keep nurturing your mind, fostering your connections and leading with heart.